Waco II, South Dakota style
Topic: General politics
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073248/Local-cops-used-Predator-drone-arrest-North-Dakota-farm-family-stealing-6-cows.html

There was no legal retribution for the State of Texas murdering the supposed 'separatists' at Waco. They were burned to death in the cellar of their home (the word "compound" was used to demonize them).

The Governor ordered in a military tank with flame thrower and deliberately burned the "compound" (house full of women and children) to the ground. I saw it on tape.

At one point, i had a copy of the raw video feed from Waco, before the networks got hold of it. It came from the Constitutional lawyer Linda Tomlinson. It showed a tank penetrating a wall, and blowing flame as it departed. It showed one of the agents/cops shooting himself in the right leg with a holstered pistol while climbing a ladder. It showed 5 on the roof, 3 went in a window and the two immediately opening fire through the wall, presumably killing the three which had just entered.

It showed agents/cops calmly walking around the "ammo dump" that was on fire. NO ONE would do that.

It showed no fire of weapons from the "compound." No dust or dirt kicked up from fire from inside. No images of Koresh or anyone else holding guns.

I personally spoke with Linda who told of the two black helicopters going through her neighborhood and "they blew up the wrong house" This was NOT the statement of a conspiracy theorist on some website, it was the statement of an ATTORNEY. I cant find her now. Not phone records, not internet search, not Bar Association records. Im usually able to find anything I want including some classified material...

these statements are not internet lore, I saw the tape, I personally talked with Linda when she was in Indianapolis IN about 1994.

The back story was this: I'm a former Seventh Day Adventist. So were David Koresh and his family/followers. Key was, that I, and they, were SEPARATISTS from the SDA Corporation. The abomination they call "corporate church" was inflammed in a political, religious, philosophical and financial firestorm about exposing the churches separation from Bible and historical teachings, exposing the corporation and its financial mis-management.

  Koresh taught what I knew well, what the SDA church has historically taught. Koresh was an "independent Seventh Day Adventist." I was too. A SDA Independent ministry in FL was being targeted by the US Government, watched, by the Church too. Word from them was they had been warned to watch their new satellite trucks (used trucks with video and sat uplink equipment to video and broadcast religious services) for weapons being planted therein. The last fragment of info I was able to get on the Waco debachle was that some information that led to it came from Australia. I had no idea how to chase that down, just a general observation from an SDA in Austrailia that the church down there was "sodom and gomorrah"

I heard the unedited interview with Koresh that the media spun as him being some crackpot. He wasnt. I knew exactly, doctrinally, what he was tallking about. It was main line, old guard Sevent day Adventist beliefs.

Giant corporations worth billions dont like to be screwed with. Ask the independent SDA Pastor from CA, was it "Viera?". OOPS, you cant, he was shot dead execution style. Kinda odd, a preacher being executed? Same kind of "odd" as the report from Barry Chamish a couple years ago about the homosexual activist Rabbi "accidentally falling down an open elevator shaft" Funny, these "accidents, he must have had something in his eye, and didnt see the shaft left open and just fell into it...

The independent SDAs just wanted to be left alone, but that wasnt good enough for the corporation who hired a Roman catholic lawyer to prosecute them for supposed trademark infringement in re use of "SDA" which had been used by the church and congregations since the late 1800s.

Again, not internet rumour, I had contacts inside these organizations/ministries. They really peed in the Corporations Cheerios.

There was illegal retribution in Oklahoma city by Tim Mc Veigh. Or co-conspirators. Whoever. Two wrongs dont make a right, they make two wrongs and lots of dead people.

"They" are replaying the narrative again, this time in North Dakota. A couple key concepts at play, and armchair psychological analysis of the N.D story of a S.O "needing" a Predator drone to find 3 cows and deal with some "armed separatists in a compound"

Same game, same plays. The last play of it was in Michigan, that story has vanished.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073248/Local-cops-used-Predator-drone-arrest-North-Dakota-farm-family-stealing-6-cows.html

  The Daily Mail does an excellent job of launching the appropriate amount of sarcasm at the 'bleeding obvious' misuse of power, then goes into full self contradiction and manipulation mode:

Here are the plays:

1.) Set up the 'Straw man' victim:

"The Brossart's alleged crime? They wouldn't give back three cows and their calves that wandered onto their 3,000-acre farm this summer."

LAST SUMMER???? And NOW this is a CRISIS?

Apparently no theft ocurred. Keep you own cows at home. Were they branded to show ownership? Cows not an insured loss?

FARM? I thought it was a COMPOUND! Pick one...Notice how its a "compound" when the desire is to demonize the people. The Media clearly look stupid attempting to demonise a "farm" Read through the story and notice where the instances of "compound" are used, and the context.

2.) demonize the victim as a pretense to applying unusual force:

"Local authorities say the Brossarts are known for being armed, anti-government separatists whose sprawling farm is used as a compound"

Compound? Since when is a "farm" a "compound? When the farmer has FIREARMS.
Like HALF of Americans arent sick to death of Government corruption, lies etc? Does that make half of America "separatists in compounds" Yes, if they are GUN OWNERS. What is "using as a compound" are the cows armed militants?" the purpose of a farm is to raise animals and crops.

3.) The photo caption used to demonize them:

"Sons Thomas and Jacob were also arrested in the bust after a 16-hour stand off, which stemmed from a half dozen stolen cows"

That caption contradicts the story, it plays on the "people believe what they hear/read first, which is why we sequester JURIES, so they arent polluted by the MEDIA.

4.) REALLY "uber-demonize" the victim.

"When the cattle wandered onto the Brossarts' land, Sheriff Kelly Janke, who patrols a county of just 3,000 people, rounded up some sheriff's deputies and arrested Mr Brossart for failing to report the stray livestock.

They also took away his daughter, Abby, after she allegedly hit an officer during the arrest.

When cops returned to collect the lost cattle, three of Brossart's sons - Alex, Jacob and Thomas - confronted Sheriff Janke with rifles and shotguns and would not allow officers on the farm. "

Where is the use of the word the media loves lately -"alleged?" In other legal issues involving the Police, they use the word "alleged" as in the "alleged anti Semitic attack in W Canada where a child of an Ayran family lit the hair on fire of a Jewish girl in school." THAT was "alleged" I have "confronted" the Tri Cities Media for misuse of the word "allegedly" and curiously it mainly applies when they are attempting to hide the fact that the crime was comitted by a Hispanic. This is a deliberate twisting of the idea of "innocent until proven guilty" - that this also means the act, the crime, was just "alleged". Theres nothing "alleged" about burnt hair. When the robber is seen running from the bank, theres nothing "alleged" about a bank robbery. Whats "Alleged" is not the act, its the "guilt or innocence in a trial"

Why isnt this incident in ND also "alleged"? Why is the action of the DAUGHTER described as "alleged but not other events?" Radical Feminism at play?

Lets set this straight:

ALLEGEDLY the assault of a deputy ocurred. Terrible, thats never happened before, what a sudden crisis!

ALLEGEDLY the SO returned and the boys confronted, armed, the deputies. ALLEGEDLY. Im SURE thats never happened before in the history of Law Enforcement. A sudden crisis surely demonstrates the need for an unusual approach like a Predator drone capable of carrying smart BOMBS that could blow the "compound" to bits. And blame it on a gas leak, after all, the Fire investigators could sift through the remains and find a ruptured gas line...

Three issues here:

1.) displaced cows, admittedly/apparently not stolen
2.) ALLEGEDLY armed Citizens confronting Police
3.) police/Governments response

 The critical word here is "capricious" which is defined by Duhaimes Legal Dictionary as:

"A judicial decision which is not based on any apparent reason."

"Capricious" as in "oh, suddenly NOW we need tanks and predator drones which are MILITARY WEAPONS to deal with a situation that has been dealth with hundreds of times in the past!"

There has NEVER been misplaced or stolen cows, NEVER been an armed confrontation between Citizens and Police. NEVER...

The cows had gone on walk-about the PREVIOUS SUMMER and NOW THIS IS A CRISIS???

And since there never has been, we can conveniently prop up this false narrative to use the "end justifies the means" to breach Posse Comitatus, and threaten and/or kill Citizens:

"The sheriff says that might not have been possible without the intelligence from the Predators.

'We don't have to go in guns blazing. We can take our time and methodically plan out what our approach should be,' Sheriff Janke told the Times. "

The false narrative here, read in reverse, states that "without the Predator intelligence they would go in with guns a blazing" which mean they would 'intend to kill Citizens if not for the intel from the Predator.' Self serving false narrative.

Last I checked LAW, execution Cuban style in the streets for theft, or posessing firearms (no one ALLEGED an actual assault with firearms by the ranchers sons) was not an appropriate penalty for this ALLEGED chain of acts by the rancher and his family.

As one response to this story reads, they could have done the same thing with a RC airplane with a camera. I know someone who has such capacity, sans the IR camera, thats too pricey for a model RC hobbyist.

There NEVER in the history of law enforcement has been a situation where Police have had to go in against armed perps. Never happened. "Capricious" No one has any idea of how to deal with that, since its NEVER happened before. There has NEVER been an instance where holed-up shooters were taken ALIVE after wating in a stand-off after having cut off utility service to the house. There was NEVER a case where the US Military had an active shooter on a military base and TALKED HIM DOWN (that happened this year)

Never...so since this is a first incidence, that justifies the first use of military force against US Citisens in contradiction to P.C. Yes, I said "first use" because most Americans have forgotten about Waco, and thats very convenient.

"Blame the victim"

Since the boys did not actually DO anything with guns against the SO, and the SO already had the Father, they could go ahead and use DUE PROCESS OF LAW to prosecute him. Thats not good enough, because that takes time and patience. That does NOT create a grand emergency scenario where the "end justifies the means" of military SWAT assault on a "compound." It doesnt make GOOD TV.

Nothing was imminently at stake, apparently the cows had been missing for quite a while, but now, suddenly, caprisiously, this is a crisis that can be handled in no other way but military force against Citizens.

Couldnt try the Father, get a court judgement and seize bank assets to pay for the cows?

No, for that doesnt advance the terrorism agenda on the part of the State.

This is substantially the same "I double dog dare you" that is in play in gang warfare.

Couldnt wait till the boys were asleep and have these magnificantly trained SWAT teams "storm the compound Waco style" and take them alive?

No, not when the agenda is to terrorize Citizens with deadly force then conveniently blame the victim.

The clever game here by both Government and Media are to "blame the victim" or deflect attention from Governments improper or illegal actions and concentrate on the victim. Somehow the ranchers actions of ALLEGEDLY illegal posession of property warrants the use of MILITARY force against them. Even so where such could be reduced to an action for monetary damages?

I once saw the incredible, unthinkable danger in the "blame the victim" mentality in a College Psych class I attended. The teacher set up the narrative of a woman who was going in the day to another town to have an extramarital affair. One day on her way home, she was attacked and murdered by a man, this attack was not related to the affair.

The teacher asked the class "who was at fault for the murder?"

THE ENTIRE CLASS EXCEPT ME ANSWERED "SHE WAS"

And these idiots might sit on a JURY some day?

So the rub here is that Deputies fear for their lives in confronting armed Citizens. Sadly, that scenario has NEVER been played before. Surely its a disgrace that local SWAT teams comprised of local PDs dont have armored vehicles that could be used to enter the property, and give the dangerous perps a dose of tear gas with. Non violent ending.

It USED TO BE that armed standoffs (and etc) were waited out, played out for the least violent ending, apparently thats not the play these days, wed rather have SWAT teams with military weapons "storm the compound and kill people" than do everythign possible to preserve peace and due process.

Zoom out to GWOT. The one Obama said no longer exists. Theres this great big scary enemy called Islam in America. They destroyed the WTC towers in 2001.

It happened.

Nothing has happened since, despite the clear presensce of such hostiles in America. Not one attack since, not one attack on completely unguarded targets such as a Municipal water system. A gang of 10th graders could put that one together. The latest hysterical play on that one was a fabricated disaster where someone ALLEGEDLY pissed in a Municipal water supply and they had to flush it (end justifies the means for an accelerated, crisis response to a non crisis event) Several of the comments on that story included the fact that ducks regularly swam on the reservior and that they surely pooped in the water. Others observed that it was a little pee in millions of gallons.

But the "sky is falling" isnt it? fabricated crises make NEWS, dont they?

Again, a gang of TENTH GRADERS could take out any average US city by shooting out poer substation transformers, so even stupid and unorganized "terrorists" could surely do the same. Were the militants in the Mumbai attacks PhD's? No, ALLEGEDLY they were barely literate.

Nothigs happening.

The Governments narrative of "we need to trash the Constitution and abandon the Posse Comitatus law to "protect Citizens" is wearing thin. They have no target to demonize. No real ones..

Ask youself - "in a day and age in America where there is such a great terrorist threat, why doesnt Government do one thing - advise Citizens to be prepared?"

If Id overheard someone talking of robbing a bank and did nothing to warn the bank, am I not as bad as the robber? "Good Samaritan?"

The difference between the "slippery slope" being an error, or actually happening, is a razor thin line where events actually do go downhill, and it usually goes bad fast. It did in Waco, for some nebulous and grievous crime of being "religious separatists" and "owning guns"

YOU decide where this one goes. And hopefully you are more able to rightly reason out rules for polite society and, failing that, established LAW, instead of the reactionary response of too many on the Internet who respond to such stories with a mixture of ad-hominem attacks, blaming the victim and a good dose of the Stockholm Syndrome, for many of the responses Ive seen on internet news stories is usually half full of "attacking the victim" responses that always are narrated to hold government absolutely harmless.

These false narratives on the part of Government go just like crime and drug abuse, first gateway drugs like pot, first, some petty shoplifting. Not a big deal, but they progress into much larger problems. It SEEMS so innocent to just innocently use MILITARY FORCE against citizens, especially with the blame the victim  card in play. After all, the rancher cause it all, didnt he?

Yep, they sure did, just like the Jews, Germans, homosexuals and gypsies caused the Holocaust.

For those who are too young to remember, or have forgotten, the "slippery slope" response to Waco was not just OKC, it was much larger. Another response was petitions in the streets, at gun shows, for "marching on Washington DC, trying and hanging Congressmen by lamp posts." I saw the petitions being circulated. This led to the interview on network TV of the Special Forces commander who was fielding the question of whether or not "US Military soldiers would fire on citizens."

That time, it was the Main Sleaze media and most of the Public that were stupid sheep, falling for the narrative. Now half the Nation is pissed off at Government, with the approval rating of CONgress (emphasis on "con") at seven percent. I think cooler heads had better prevail, and this stupid para military SWAT crap needs to be put away.

And in case you missed the "end justifies the means" play, here it is:

"During an 16-hour standoff, the sheriff and his deputies waited until they could see the remaining Brossarts put down their weapons. Then, dressed in SWAT gear, they stormed the compound and arrested the three Brossart sons. No shots were fired."

since "no shots were fired" (the ends) then the means (usign MILITARY FORCE AGAINST CITIZENS) is somehow justified (the "means")

This is perfectly the same reasoning as all sick minds in history have used to justify mass murder.

This could have been done with hand held IR cameras. I can buy one for $3000.

And lest you miss what appears to be a false statement, this implies that the SWAT team were standing at the front door of the farm house, waiting for those inside to put their guns down and walk a good distance away so the SWAT team had plenty of time to get between them and their guns. Not likely IMO.

I personally prefer the Chuck Norris approach in the movie "Lone Wolf "Mc Quade" where his line was, in response to him being assaulted:

"Kid, if I locked up every one that took a swing at me, half of Texas would be behind bars."


PS the false narrative of "we dont have to use due process on terrorists" is playing right this minute on al Jazeera TV. The thing to remember is that due process is a burden imposed on GOVERNMENT, not People. People have no responsibility to adhere to due process, so implying that since the accused are not Citizens, abolishes the due process REQUIREMENT. The slippery slope goes that "an American citizen engaging in terrorist activities then does not deserve due process (again, its not about him, its about GOVERNMENTS responsibilities) and then, once that narrative comes to life, then the slippery slope may be extended to ANY CITIZEN, thereby eliminating due process.